+81: Tell us more about Citylights Projects, like how you started the project, a brief history since then, and more details about your activities.

Andy Mac: In the early nineties I was living and working out of a studio in the centre of Melbourne that had been taken over by artists. Melbourne was in an economic recession at the time, which meant there were lots of cheap industrial buildings available. Artists and designers of all types moved in, living and working throughout the city. Flinders Lane had been the centre of Melbourne’s fashion industry since the 1940’s at least, and some of these businesses still existed. The city was very underused at this time. Lots of empty shops and spaces. It was a great playground for artists

I started informally working with artists in my building, which led to small projects and eventually the idea for a permanent public project. Citylights Projects arose from the the diverse interests of it's founders – Situationist theory, punk, street art and graffiti, digital technology, advertising and propaganda methods. Citylights is a response to a unique environment that contained a thriving community of designers, artists, musicians, writers, craftspeople, art spaces and entrepreneurs.

As time went on, and street art began to grow in the 90’s I began to coordinate projects illegal and legal, that were about painting in the street. In recent years I have also started to curate installations for public buildings, work with indigenous artists, workshops for artists with autism, educational programs for school kids and adults.

+81: You also collaborate with the city of Melbourne and the state art museum. What sort of support do they provide to you?

AM: I don’t have any formal relationship with the City of Melbourne. Citylights is completely independent and does not receive funding from any organization or government group. I like it that way. When Citylights began, I applied for funding from the City, but within a few years it became obvious that the strings attached to council funding were too restrictive. So in 2001 I turned Citylights into a private organization. So the council provide no support for Citylights, and occasionally they try and interfere in adverse ways. I see the council as being quite cynical in that they exploit cultural producers in Melbourne for marketing purposes, but don’t put anything of substance back into the culture.

I am currently working with the National Gallery of Australia as an independent advisor. In 2004 I collected over 600 stencil works on paper – proof prints by most of the active street artists in Melbourne between 1999 and 2003. The National Gallery purchased these works, and in October 2010 will be the subject of major exhibition, the first institutional exhibition on street art in Australia. The focus of the exhibition is street printing techniques – postering, photocopies, stenciling, printmaking, zines – and the application of these techniques in street art. I’m writing an essay for the catalogue and producing a short film based on my photographic archives. Over the years I have produced some projects for the Museum of Australia, and educational work for the National Gallery of Victoria, but I have no permanent relationship with any institution.

+81: You also run the Lightbox Gallery. How did you come up with the idea of displaying art using lightboxes? Are the walls of the street also a part of the Lightbox Gallery?

AM: I love (and hate) advertising. Advertising and art have long “stolen” ideas from each other. Citylights light-boxes were inspired by the seeing how successful advertising in public was, and using those techniques to reach an audience who didn’t go to galleries, who didn’t have much time to look at art, but who understood the language of advertising. I thought that if people could understand advertising, they could understand art, and I wanted to tap into that. I wanted to make an impact in a public space. I also love graffiti and street art. But I didn’t want to do graffiti. I felt that as a culture, most of the innovation in graffiti had occurred in the 70’s and 80’s. So, like a lot of artists in the post-graffiti years of the early 90’s, I looked for a way that I could contribute to street culture, but doing it differently. I started showing street artists and activists in the light-boxes right from the start, which encouraged other artists to come and start adding to the walls, and eventually took over the whole street, turning it into an outdoor gallery.

+81: The gallery is open 24 hours. Is it an open space where anyone can draw? Tell us about the concept of Lightbox Gallery.

AM: Citylights is located in a street, so people can come and look at it any time. The walls of the street are now covered completely in street art. Some of the street art is carried out the traditional way, illegally. If someone wants to paint a production or a more ambitious piece, then I help coordinate that. Rutledge Lane adjoins Hosier lane – it’s like the back lane. This part of the street is kept for less experienced artists, and there is often a lot of tagging and piecing there. Some days it looks great, some days it looks terrible. Hosier lane is reserved for more considered art, but various people add to it without permission. I try to coordinate the street like a garden. It’s ok to have weeds in the garden, and also ok to encourage the better plants.

+81: You’ve had artists from all sorts of genres come from around the world to participate in your project. How do you form your network with these artists?

AM: I form networks in an organic way. I’ve worked with artists like Blek le Rat, Invader, Fafi, and street artists from Europe and Asia. The street art world is pretty close knit, everyone is connected to someone else. Sometimes artists write to me, sometimes I seek people out. It’s pretty organic, and I rarely plan shows too far ahead. I do a lot of email, look at a lot of websites, read a lot of books. My networks are accidental and sometimes considered.

+81: You are now holding displaying at two laneways: Hosier Lane and Centre Place. What led to start using two laneways? Also, what sort of locations were they originally?

AM: In Centre place, the location was right outside my back window. It was a dirty smelly dead end alley off Centre Place, full of rats and rubbish. But thousands of people walk past this spot every day. I saw it as a space that no one valued, but had great potential for reaching a large audience. And it had a great layout – it was like an outdoor gallery, with no art on the walls. So the geography of the space was great, and it was convenient to where I lived.

Centre Place was starting to become funky it was obvious that the space would become gentrified. Citylights successfully claimed some space for the creative community that lived and worked in the area, and gave the public something as well.

Hosier Lane presented itself when I was asked to design lighting for Misty bar in Hosier Lane in 1997. Nothing was happening in this lane, no business, and few people used it. But I recognized that Federation Square, a major development featuring cultural institutions would be built across the road from Hosier Lane, and that this would eventually become a busy destination.

Hosier Lane had a lot of charm, but was a blank canvas. In the 1940’s through to the late 70’s, both these locations were in the heart of the fashion industry in Melbourne. After World War 2 a lot of European immigrants set up business here – hat makers, lingerie, jewelers, beads, fabrics. In the early 90’s some of these business still existed side by side with artists. Many of the buildings date from the 1920 and 30’s - beautiful industrial buildings and warehouses. In the early 90’s Melbourne city was boring and empty. Artists made use of this, turning the city into a biuzzing place, which in turn encouraged business and the public to make use of the city in more imaginative ways.

+81: The Lightbox Gallery in particular makes use of the laneway, so it seems would be necessary to obtain the consent of the city and community. What sort of communication do you maintain with them?

AM: In the beginning I sought contact with building owners, and they were happy to give me use of the walls. I didn’t need permission form the City, just the building owners. As the community developed and the street art grew in these streets, I developed relationships with all the businesses and many residents in these areas. Hosier Lane now has a famous Spanish restaurant (Movida), a bar (Misty), a healthcare centre, as well as apartments and hotels nearby. The light-boxes in Hosier are on the wall of the Forum theatre, so I talk to them as well.

When I started Citylights, neither of the street locations were used or valued by the community. So I was able to encourage painting in these streets while no one was looking, and by the time the authorities realised what was going on, it was too late. On a day-to-day basis I talk to artists who would like to do street works, coordinate spots for them to paint.

Over the years the council has changed its position on street art many times, and I have been involved with discussions with police, state and council level discussions. In Hosier Lane our community has managed to keep the council at arms length. Melbourne has a lot of social issues at the moment – violence, alcohol, drugs – and where these issues affect my local communities I have been involved in lobbying and discussions. Painting in Hosier Lane is loosely coordinated by me, in consultation with the local community, who support this activity.

+81: You are also active as an artist. What is the most appealing thing about urban art for you?

AM: What I love about street and urban art is that as an artist you have a direct line to the public, and the reach and impact is much greater than an indoor gallery. I like the fact there are no curators or middlemen, so the artist is going directly to an audience. I like to see people intervening in public space, questioning what is public. I think that communities have been bludgeoned into submission by government, corporations and advertising with regard to use of our urban environments. People have forgotten that public space is THEIR space.

Street artists remind the public that we can all make more use of our environment. The public has a very rich relationship with street art, because they discover it - the sense of discovery or surprise that comes with street art is a crucial part of its success. Art placed in the street has is unmediated, which is very rare in a world where large chunks of our media are controlled by a few very powerful interests.

+81: You also started the indoor gallery Until Never in 2005. Tell us a bit about how this came about and the concept behind the gallery.

AM: I had a studio in Hosier Lane from 2001-4, which I shared with architects and artists, comic book writers, graphic artists. Eventually the top floor of the building became available. It has two beautiful rooms, with a lot of light and high ceilings. So I took the lease and used it for a studio for a year, then started Until Never. I had been feeling the need for an indoor space for a while. Lots of artists I knew and worked with were doing interesting things and I felt that an indoor space allowed for projects and experiments that couldn’t be done in a public space. It is a commercial gallery, with an experimental heart. I have focused on particular street artists, and I show some artists that I have had a relationship with for over 15 years.

I have tried to show artists that I think have an important place in the history of urban art in Australia, particularly those that can transcend the more obvious aesthetics of bringing street art into a gallery. I also keep my eyes open, and I work fast so if I meet someone or an opportunity presents itself, then I can stage shows quickly. I like all kinds of art, I like artists who are passionate and following their own path. I’m interested in politics and community. Until Never reflects all these interests.

+81: Using different environs like the street, walls, lightboxes, and interiors creates different relationships between the artist and the observer. How do you differentiate between the different galleries?

AM: In both cases, I seek artists who want to create works specifically for either environment. So each exhibition is a project unto itself. With Citylights I look for work that has some currency for its time, and something that can be viewed in a short space of time. The concept is a lot like advertising, so art that can communicate itself fast and without reference is usually successful in the street.

Until Never is indoors, and people may spend more time looking at it. So in some ways Until Never is looser and more experimental. I look for young artists who are ready to do something wild, older artists who want to do something adventurous. I like to mix it up, so pretty much anything goes. Eclectic.

+81: What is the state of art and culture in Melbourne?

AM: Melbourne is very busy culturally. There are more artists and galleries and institutions here than anywhere else in Australia. The live music and dance scenes here have always been very strong. The council and the state government know this, and Melbourne is marketed as the cultural capital of Australia. This can be a problem too, as bureaucrats and government have found it easy to exploit the talent and enthusiasm of culture workers and artists. Melbourne’s strength (and weakness) is that it so far away from everywhere, so artists have to work hard here to entertain themselves, and this sometimes leads to very unique art. Melbourne’s art is thriving. The challenge for Melbourne is to create networks with the rest of the world.

+81: What sort of merit or movements do you think having galleries like yours in Melbourne creates?

AM: Galleries can be catalysts. In Melbourne there are hundreds of galleries. At least 30 artists run/ experimental spaces. Each of these spaces has a different outlook, fosters different types of culture and aesthetic and has a community network that can number in the thousands.

Galleries like Citylights and Until Never, I hope are catalysts for more activity, giving exposure and opportunity to artists, bringing art to wide audiences and inspiring people to do their own projects. My galleries have a very young audience – kids love us! I find that exciting, because the next generation will show us things we could never imagine. I started showing urban artists when street art was in its infancy, and the projects have grown alongside this culture. I think Citylights in particular has helped Melbournians to imagine uses for public space, and to encourage people to make that space their own.

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